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Go Back   Pollensa Forum > LIVING & WORKING IN POLLENSA > Living & Working in the Pollensa Area

Living & Working in the Pollensa Area This forum is for any comments, questions and advice about living (permanently or temporarily) and working in the Pollensa area. Aimed at ex-pats, property owners etc.

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  #1  
Old 22-08-2022, 16:14
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Default Tourist stays

Hi All, I thought id check with those of you who own property in a community that does not allow rental licenses. ( like ours)

We have one owner who, much to the annoyance of the rest of the community, appears to consistently rent out his house for short periods. Itís been brought up in the annual meetings, but nothing appears to change. Now an extraordinary meeting has been called to try and deal with this owner once and for all. The meeting agenda cites the following:

ďa tourist stay shall be understood as the temporary transfer of the right of enjoyment by the owner of the property to third parties, whether or not in exchange for a price, of dwelling for short periods of time, understood as stays of days or weeks. In any case it is considered tourist stay the temporally cession of the right of enjoyment of the property, whether or not in exchange for a price, for a period of less than 31 days. Likewise, any transfer of the property by the owner to a thirds party when there is no lease contract formalized in accordance with the Urban Lease Law, Law 29/1994, is considered a tourist stay, provided that such temporary transfer is less than 2 months.

Now, Iíve never seen this before and wonder if it means that any of us are not legally allowed to let our friends use our placeÖ.or even family? If anyone knows a bit more about this or has experience of similar situations, id appreciate your thoughts?
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Old 23-08-2022, 14:23
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Sorry no direct experience but I always thought it is okay to have family at your own property. I'm sure others will advise.
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Old 23-08-2022, 18:02
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockape View Post
Hi All, I thought id check with those of you who own property in a community that does not allow rental licenses. ( like ours)

We have one owner who, much to the annoyance of the rest of the community, appears to consistently rent out his house for short periods. It’s been brought up in the annual meetings, but nothing appears to change. Now an extraordinary meeting has been called to try and deal with this owner once and for all. The meeting agenda cites the following:

“a tourist stay shall be understood as the temporary transfer of the right of enjoyment by the owner of the property to third parties, whether or not in exchange for a price, of dwelling for short periods of time, understood as stays of days or weeks. In any case it is considered tourist stay the temporally cession of the right of enjoyment of the property, whether or not in exchange for a price, for a period of less than 31 days. Likewise, any transfer of the property by the owner to a thirds party when there is no lease contract formalized in accordance with the Urban Lease Law, Law 29/1994, is considered a tourist stay, provided that such temporary transfer is less than 2 months.

Now, I’ve never seen this before and wonder if it means that any of us are not legally allowed to let our friends use our place….or even family? If anyone knows a bit more about this or has experience of similar situations, id appreciate your thoughts?
I’m pretty sure that family members would not be considered to be “third parties”. Very often, confusion arises in the translation from Spanish to English where some words, particularly legal ones, have no direct equivalent. Suffice to say that we will continue to enjoy our property as a family.

I would have thought that for a stay to be considered a rental, money would have to change hands and janitorial services be provided. I stand to be corrected but I think this interpretation exceeds the intention of the legislation.
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Old 24-08-2022, 13:55
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As far as I understand it, your major problem could be with the taxman and not the community.

If someone decides to alert the authorities that they suspect that you are renting the property, you would have to prove without a shadow of a doubt that no money changed hands and that no financial gain occurred on your behalf.

Easier said than done.
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Old 24-08-2022, 18:15
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Originally Posted by Julian Simms View Post
As far as I understand it, your major problem could be with the taxman and not the community.

If someone decides to alert the authorities that they suspect that you are renting the property, you would have to prove without a shadow of a doubt that no money changed hands and that no financial gain occurred on your behalf.

Easier said than done.
A good point, but one I imagine would only apply to larger communities where someone might object to unknown visitors and alert the authorities. Luckily, our community comprises four apartments, all owned by Brits and no rentals are allowed. We all know each other well, get on with each other, and keep each other informed of the occupation of our apartments, so I donít see any likelihood of problems.

Of course othersí circumstances may differ.
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Old 25-08-2022, 15:58
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Originally Posted by Disorderly View Post
A good point, but one I imagine would only apply to larger communities where someone might object to unknown visitors and alert the authorities. Luckily, our community comprises four apartments, all owned by Brits and no rentals are allowed. We all know each other well, get on with each other, and keep each other informed of the occupation of our apartments, so I donít see any likelihood of problems.

Of course othersí circumstances may differ.
Whether we communicate with each other or not, Itís either legal or not to allow friends and family to use your house, when no money has changed hands. People can make allegations, but does Spanish law accept someone is guilty of a crime without any evidence?
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Old 25-08-2022, 16:38
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I was under the impression that property owners pay an anual “rental value” tax based on its catastral value. Surely, if there is rent tax, then the authorities assume that rentals will take place if the council requirements have been met.

If I were renting to family or friends, and had any doubts about my neighbours ethics, I would declare a very minimal amount and pay tax on it.
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Old 25-08-2022, 19:06
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Originally Posted by Rockape View Post
Whether we communicate with each other or not, Itís either legal or not to allow friends and family to use your house, when no money has changed hands. People can make allegations, but does Spanish law accept someone is guilty of a crime without any evidence?
I really do think that an enormous mountain is being made of a molehill here.
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Old 25-08-2022, 22:15
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When you say rentals aren't allowed- how is this declared? Is it in the deeds? Or do you mean that as a community you've decided not to allow touristic rentals and therefore no one can have a touristic licence.

If the owner who is renting his flat out blocks it out for over 31 days at a time then it isn't considered touristic and just becomes a normal long letting. He will pay tax in that amount I presume.
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Old 26-08-2022, 12:27
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https://property-lawyers.com/rental-licence-this-year/

What is Not a Holiday Letting?
If one of these apply, your property does not count as a holiday letting and therefore you won’t need an ETV:

Renting out your property seasonally as long as you aren’t marketing the house for tourism (via real estate agencies, social media etc)
Renting out your home for non-tourist use.
Renting out for longer than 1 month.
Letting your family or friends stay in the property for free.
Exchanging holiday rental homes.


Not sure if you let them stay in the property for free but they buy you dinner in errr Stay.
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Last edited by Bircho; 26-08-2022 at 12:30.
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  #11  
Old 26-08-2022, 17:50
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Originally Posted by bobley View Post
When you say rentals aren't allowed- how is this declared? Is it in the deeds? Or do you mean that as a community you've decided not to allow touristic rentals and therefore no one can have a touristic licence.

If the owner who is renting his flat out blocks it out for over 31 days at a time then it isn't considered touristic and just becomes a normal long letting. He will pay tax in that amount I presume.
In Spanish law properties that form a part of a community can only be rented if the majority of owners vote for this to be allowed. In our case we have all agreed that renting is not allowed. That decision, historically made when the property was built 18 years ago will have been minuted by the administrators.
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  #12  
Old 26-08-2022, 19:10
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Originally Posted by Disorderly View Post
I really do think that an enormous mountain is being made of a molehill here.
Well yes, but the President of the community has now threatened my law abiding neighbor with legal action, because she has let her Goddaughter and family use their place. Itís all got out of hand because one person has pushed the rules and there have been a succession of two week stays by people weíve never seen before. We have voted not to allow tourist rentals, but as we share a water meter, we donít fit the requirements anyway.

Quite who would pay for the legal action is another thing, so itís all bluff and bluster imo. But itís causing grief, in a place we all go to relax.
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  #13  
Old 26-08-2022, 19:59
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Tell him/her that having family or friends staying in your apartment is the only way you can avoid okupas (squatters) moving in.
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  #14  
Old 27-08-2022, 15:31
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I fully understand that you can all agree to not allow touristic rentals but I didn't realise you could stop any rentals whatsoever. I certainly wouldn't buy such a property and I imagine having this "covenant " will seriously reduce its value. I let any of my family and friend stay in my house and now with fuel prices reaching insane levels in the UK I have my folks wanting to stay long term too. Also, if things get worse i might have to rent my place long term to make a bit more cash. Im not condoning your neighbours behaviour but I can see their point. It's so restrictive it makes no sense. I would wager a beer that's its not legal to restrict someone's use of their own property to such a degree.
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  #15  
Old 27-08-2022, 17:05
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There appears to be a misunderstanding here regarding the property owners imputed income tax. This relatively small annual tax is not a tax on any income derived from letting the property but a tax levied on the value of holiday homes and second homes. It is more a type of wealth tax. Any income derived from letting the property, be it paid in Spain or abroad, must be declared on Form 210 and will be taxed at 25%
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