'Illegal Renting' - The Other Side of the Story.

[favie]

Originally Posted by rainbow

pay your taxes!

Of course everyone should pay tax on all their income....without a shadow of a doubt!

About residential rentals.....most of what we see advertised on various websites are indeed in residential areas, (of course there are the obvious Tourist Blocks that we all know). If these, through this new law, are no longer available to holidaymakers then Puerto Pollensa will suffer badly and people who complain will suffer too!
By all means let the tax man do his job but as far as this new law goes it will ruin the place!

I can't post a link but part of an article I read today:

"The new legislation, which has already been approved by Spain's Congress, would hand the power of regulating the renting of properties to regional governments and would make temporary leasing by a private property owner illegal.

Short-term renting to tourists, whether for the summer period or on a day-by-day basis, has up to now been a civil right enshrined in Spain’s Urban Rental law (LAU).

But the government appears to have finally listened to the pleas of hotel owners."

[pescador2009]

In some ways it is a shame that the complications involved with rented properties have arisen, but reading both sides of the 'argument' makes one realise it's not just a simple case of 'you pay your money (or accept the money) and take your chance'. Over many years I have rented different properties in PP in different parts of the resort without any problems whatsoever. I have also treated them with great respect and - without fail - have left them spic and span on completion of our holiday. Now, we have never purposely rented apartments based on the fact that they may or may not be in a 'purpose built' apartment block for holiday use only. In fact I would say that the premises I have enjoyed most have had a mix of 'residents' (on holiday or otherwise) particularly locals where one can say 'hola' and try a word or two of Spanish each day.
I have also been treated with every respect by my short term neighbours.
As a renter I have no idea at all if apartments have had a 'certificate of rental' or not.
It begs the question of who should have a level of responsibility for letting one know should 'Certificated Accommodation Only' becomes the rule in the Balearic Islands along with the rest of Spain. Presumably it will the 'Rentee' rather than the 'Renter'. I can see that could have repercussions for many web-sites as well as many 'Rentees'.
I can fully understand present 'Certificated' property owners being somewhat aggrieved when competing against others on a somewhat 'unlevel playing field'. I can also understand that 'Renters' haven't (especially in the past) fully appreciated the overall implications of the business side of renting holiday property. The rentals tend to be taken and paid for on face value.
A rather large can-of-worms has been opened and it is going to be very interesting how things pan out over the next year or so!

[smg]

Originally Posted by Papillon

Nothing this is Spain, tax evasion, under the table payments, black and white deals have been rife for years. Nobody would be interested in opening that can of worms.

"

that's partly why Spain, Greece, et al are in such a financial mess

[Papillon]

rainbow maybe I should take a little time to explain myself.

Spanish property legislation has always been a minefield of misinformation and dubious practices. Many owners on here will be fully aware of the Capital Gains tax scam that saw bundles of notes passed across the table in front of lawyers and bank managers whilst the notary left the room. My solicitor said this was normal custom and practice of splitting white and black money 80/20 or 70/30, what he didn’t say of course is that any new property owner was taking on somebody else’s Capital Gains should the system be stopped. This of course happened on 1st Jan 2007 when the Income Tax Act and Tax Fraud Prevention Act came into force which resulted in the Capital Gains tax being reduced from 35% to 18%.

At the time I was told that I had to obtain a permit to rent if I wished to let out my property to tourists, but was also told that nobody took any notice and that there had been no prosecutions as both Spanish residents and foreign owners continued to advertise their properties through local advertising agencies.

I was also told that there are many other areas where the apparent law has been ignored, from constructing buildings over the maximum number of floors to a villa owner who wanted planning permission for his swimming pool and was told it would be denied but build it anyway because if anyone notices there will only be a small fine.

So these were the custom and practices that were endemic throughout the Port.

Is it any wonder then that this grey market of private tourist rentals flourished.

But then the recession hit us all, particularly the hotel owners and registered letting agencies. So under pressure from this influential group an amendment to the law concerning Residential Tourism came into force in June 2013. This basically bans all short term rentals without a permit (they are not issuing any) both for non resident (foreign) and resident (mainly Spanish) property owners.
Recent press articles highlight the plight of Spanish property owners who, hit by the recession, are very concerned that the odd room they rent out to supplement their income will be subject to this law.

Now this is my problem, I believe this poorly drafted discriminatory legislation contravenes the European Charter. I don’t believe that any country within The EU can introduce such anti competitive legislation that so clearly discriminates against property owners who invested in the Country and who wish to exercise their right to earn a tax paid income from their properties. Nobody is asking to be treated as a special case but just that we have a level playing field.

What we need is a properly regulated private rental market that sits along side the established commercial market. One that regulates rental permits along the lines I have already eluded to and one that encourages full disclosure of income and tax paid. This has to be the bedrock to build the recovery not just for the Port but throughout Spain.

Just think Carol the ability to object to the issue of a rental permit because of noisy neighbours would certainly focus the mind of the offenders.

So what can be done, well I have asked owners to register their interest in the “Property Owners Support Group” by sending me a PM so I can add their screen name to the Gmail account I have set up.

Why? Because sometime soon there is going to be a test case and I believe it is in the interests of all of us to give support to the defendant. If it means contributing to a fund then so be it, if it means canvassing local businesses for support then so be it, if it means involving the local press then so be it. We cannot sit back and let this legislation go unchallenged.

So rainbow, in answer to you glib response, no I don’t think there are illegal renters but just property owners trapped in this death spiral that will destroy the heart of the Spanish economy, namely the tourist industry.

Papillon

[Major Tom]

My family & I have had every year problems in our apartment block from people renting, I think the only way forward on this is to designate a whole block to renting or a the whole
block for owners & family only.This year I will not be going out in the high season so at
least I will not be involved with the problems most of the visitors cause.
Beware if you are considering buying especially in the larger blocks, it comes down to finance I guess,I would advise if you can't afford it don't rent it out to make up the difference, buy something in the UK & rent it out.

[ragdollabbi]

I don't think these 'problems' whatever they may beare totally caused by the renters. I think the owners of the apartments are partly to blame possibly because they do not do enough research into the people who are about to rent their property. I know it can be difficult when you don't actually meet the person beforehand but in my experience, a few emails between both parties or an occasional telephone call can give both lots of people a 'feel' for what the person is like. I have stuck to that philosophy both in the UK and abroad for many years, and so far, touch wood, I have never had any problems with the people I have been renting from If some of the owners perhaps took more time to get to know the people who are going to be renting their property beforehand, and asked some pertinent questions then some of these 'problems' may be avoided but I'm sure lots of owners just want to get the rental money in the bank straight away. Just my thoughts on this as I do not class myself to be a problem renter and definitely object to the phrase "problems most of the visitors cause" Remember lots of the owners were visitors at some point before they purchased property. Apologies if I have offended anyone

[pansy potter]

Completely agree , it's not just renters that make the noise owners can be just as annoying ! Iin our community we have owners and residents dogs barking constantly when the owners are out , music coming from the apartments , doors banging when the kids are coming in late , but when all said and done does it matter its life ? We are all human and none of us perfect , I m sure at some point in time we have all irritated someone by our behaviour whether its on holiday or at home !